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Hebrews 12:8

in Hebrews 12

If you do not experience discipline like everyone else, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

BSB

The same verse in ASV and KJV

ASV

But if ye are without chastening, whereof all have been made partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

KJV

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

This verse in Hebrews 12

Commentary

11 notes on this verse

A commentator

Theodoret of Cyrus

INTERPRETATION OF HEBREWS 12 · Written before 458.

Fathers are in the habit of disciplining their true children, and if they see them caned by the teachers, they do not worry; they see the fruit coming from the discipline. But they despise illegitimate children and do not accord them equal attention. So if …

This site's exposition

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons

on Hebrews 12:7-8

The argument turns the suffering itself into the proof it seemed to deny, if ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons, since what father does not correct the son he owns as his. Verse eight states the inverse with a hard word, bastards, not sons, so that discipline's absence rather than its presence is what should trouble a reader who wonders whether God has abandoned him.

The record, by era

The Church Fathers3 voices

A commentator

Apostolic Constitutions

Constitutions of the Holy Apostles Book 2 · Written before 380.

proposed

But if any one be maliciously prosecuted by the heathen, because he will not still go along with them to the same excess of riot, let him know that such a one is blessed of God, according as our Lord says in the Gospel: "Blessed are ye when men shall reproach you, or persecute you, or say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice and be exceeding glad, for your reward is great in heaven."

A commentator

John Chrysostom

Homily on Hebrews 29 · Written in the 5th century.

proposed

Then again he argues from the general custom. Seest thou how he brings up arguments from all quarters, from facts in the Scripture, from its words, from our own notions, from examples in ordinary life? "But if ye be without chastisement" and so on. Seest thou that he said what I just mentioned, that it is not possible to be a son without being chastened? For as in families, fathers care not for bastards, though they learn nothing, though they be not distinguished, but fear for their legitimate sons lest they should be indolent, so here. If then not to be chastised is a mark of bastards, we ought to rejoice at chastisement, if this be a sign of legitimacy. "God dealeth with you as with sons"; for this very cause.

A commentator

Oecumenius

The Pseudo-Oecumenian Catena on Hebrews · Written before 550.

proposed

"If you are not disciplined." Where he had sought from the things themselves, namely with all the saints brought forth who had fought through afflictions, now he strives to persuade even from human reasoning. "then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at …

The Medieval Church2 voices

A commentator

Thomas Aquinas

Commentary on Hebrews · Written before 1274.

proposed

677. – Then (v. 8) he argues from what he has already said: first, he concludes to something unwelcome; secondly, by giving an example (v. 9); thirdly, he mentions the resulting usefulness (v. 11). 678. – In regard to the first he gives this reason: …

A commentator

Theophylact of Ohrid

Commentary on Hebrews · Written before 1107.

proposed

Using the example of those whom they thought were abandoned by God, he shows them that they were an object of God's care. For if you were free from afflictions, it would turn out that you are illegitimate children, and not sons. For what father …
4 more voices on this verse

The Puritans and the Awakening1 voice

But if ye be without chastisement,.... Or have no affliction: whereof all are partakers; that is, all the children of God; they are all alike children; they are all in a state of imperfection, and prone to sin; God has an impartial respect unto them: and though they are not all alike chastened, nor chastened at all times, yet none are exempted from chastisement, but have it in some way or another, and at some time or another.

The Nineteenth Century3 voices

A commentator

Adam Clarke

1762–1832

Commentary on the Bible · Written before 1832.

Then are ye bastards - This proceeds on the general fact, that bastards are neglected in their manners and education; the fathers of such, feeling little affection for, or obligation to regard, their spurious issue. But all that are legitimate children are partakers of chastisement or discipline; for the original word παιδεια does not imply stripes and punishments, but the whole discipline of a child, both at home and at school.

A commentator

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown

1802–1910

Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (1871)

"Since then not to be chastised is a mark of bastardy, we ought [not to refuse, but] rejoice in chastisement, as a mark of our genuine sonship" [CHRYSOSTOM].
But if ye be without chastisement - If you never meet with anything that is adapted to correct your faults; to subdue your temper; to chide your wanderings, it would prove that you were in the condition of illegitimate children - cast off and disregarded by their father. Whereof all are partakers - All who are the true children of God. Then are ye bastards, and not sons - The reference here is to the neglect with which such children are treated, and to the general want of care and discipline over them: “Lost in the world’s wide range; enjoin’d no aim, Prescrib’d no duty, and assign’d no name.” Savage. In the English law, a bastard is termed “nullius filius.” Illegitimate children are usually abandoned by their father. The care of them is left to the mother, and the father endeavors to avoid all responsibility, and usually to be concealed and unknown. His own child he does not wish to recognize; he neither provides for him; nor instructs him; nor governs him; nor disciplines him. A father, who is worthy of the name, will do all these things. So Paul says it is with Christians. God has not cast them off. In every way he evinces toward them the character of a father. And if it should be that they passed along through life without any occurrence that would indicate the paternal care and attention designed to correct their faults, it would show that they never had been his children, but - were cast off and wholly disregarded. This is a beautiful argument; and we should receive every affliction as full proof that we are not forgotten by the High and Holy One who condescends to sustain to us the character, and to evince toward us, in our wanderings, the watchful care of a Father.

The words behind it

15 Greek words

Every Greek word of this verse in the order it stands, with what it means and the door to its own study. The last column counts the times a word stands in the whole Bible: the rarer the word, the more the places it appears belong together.

A shaded row is a word that stands 400 times or fewer in the Bible.

The walk

8 stops

Each card is a verse this one points to, and under it the verses that one points to in turn. Where several paths arrive at the same place, that place is listed first: the text keeps returning to it.

  • Through

    Hebrews 12:6

    For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises every son He receives.”

    it leads to

    • Revelation 3:19

      Those I love, I rebuke and discipline. Therefore be earnest and repent.

    • Proverbs 3:12

      for the LORD disciplines the one He loves, as does a father the son in whom he delights.

    • Psalms 119:75

      I know, O LORD, that Your judgments are righteous, and that in faithfulness You have afflicted me.

    • Proverbs 13:24

      He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him diligently.

    • Psalms 94:12

      Blessed is the man You discipline, O LORD, and teach from Your law,

  • Through

    Psalms 73:1

    Surely God is good to Israel, to those who are pure in heart.

    it leads to

    • Matthew 5:8

      Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

    • Psalms 51:10

      Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

    • Psalms 84:11

      For the LORD God is a sun and a shield; the LORD gives grace and glory; He withholds no good thing from those who walk with integrity.

Where this verse is studied

About Hebrews

Christ Presented to the People, Gustave Doré, 1866. Public domain.
Christ Presented to the People, Gustave Doré, 1866. Public domain.
This page draws on 12 works. Open the list of works

This page draws on Adam Clarke, Commentary on the Bible; Albert Barnes, Notes, Explanatory and Practical, on the Old and New Testaments (1832-1869); Apostolic Constitutions, Constitutions of the Holy Apostles Book 2; Jamieson, Fausset & Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible; John Calvin, Commentary on Hebrews; John Chrysostom, Homily on Hebrews 29; John Gill, Exposition of the New Testament (1746-1748); John Owen, An Exposition of the Epistle to the Hebrews; Oecumenius, The Pseudo-Oecumenian Catena on Hebrews; Theodoret of Cyrus, INTERPRETATION OF HEBREWS 12; Theophylact of Ohrid, Commentary on Hebrews and Thomas Aquinas, Commentary on Hebrews.